各位大虾，关于RED后期调色

音乐长老

也玩一张/veg 色阶出图

freedomfirst

目前一部电影的后期DI费用除去数转胶，大概还需要10-15W.
使用HP DreamColor LP2480xz做电影DI调色监视，质量能达到10万元级别以上的专业监视器的效果，配合COLOR+DECKLINK HD EXTREME+HD LINK DISPLAYPORT+CINESPACE(LUT查色表 模拟各类胶片)，后期DI费用能降低一半，对中小成本电影（特别是REDONE转胶片）无疑是个好消息。现就此问题展开探讨：
应用范围，以2K DCI数字电影及胶片拷贝为目的

关于使用细节，先转几段英文，无奈小弟才疏学浅，看见这么多符号就头大，哪位大虾给大家翻译一下

The HP LP2480zx is intended to be a CRT-replacement display, and is already being sold into animation, television, film, photography and print applications. The industry is well aware of the need for an LCD solution that can replace CRTs. The HP LP2480zx is an affordable candidate for this transition, and many users are finding that they like what they see and can trust the display.

The LP2480zx is designed to provide highly accurate color AND gamma conformance with whichever standard color space is selected by the user. For example, if the user selects "Rec. 709", then the monitor will behave as a completely accurate Rec. 709 device. The parameters for this compliance are:

* Chromaticity of the red, green and blue primaries (the gamut)
* Chromaticity of the whitepoint (red, green, blue all maximum)
* Tone response (gamma)

Accurate compliance with gamut is achieved by four things:

* A super-wide native (physical) gamut in the display, which completely encloses the gamuts of Rec. 709, Adobe RGB and others, and almost completely encloses (97%) the very wide gamut of DCI-P3 (try doing THAT with a CRT!!!);

* Accurate calibration (for every unit) in the factory (or by the user, using the HP Advanced Profiling Solution for the DreamColor Display);

* High-precision color and tone mapping with the 36-bit HP DreamColor Engine (an electronic subsystem in the monitor); and

* A true 30-bit panel (despite rumors to the contrary!) which allows the HP DreamColor Engine to map input colors to a true palette of 1.07 billion physically displayable colors. This reduces color error when performing the color and tone mapping.

Accurate tone response (gamma) is achieved through the same path, and is enabled by the panel's 1000:1 contrast ratio.

(Note: the HP LP2480zx does not implement any "dynamic contrast ratio" techniques, as HP regards these as inappropriate for a reference display.)

(Also note: some standard color spaces, such as sRGB, use a complex tone response curve consisting of a linear section at near-blacks followed by a gamma curve. The HP LP2480zx implements this type of tone response accurately for sRGB.)

Now, a question I have is, "what is the color space of the RED images?". If it's a standard color space, such as Rec. 709, then simply displaying the images on the monitor, with the monitor set to "Rec. 709" mode (using the on-screen menu) will give accurate results, as long as there's no color management being performed by the viewer application and/or the operating system.

Having said that, probably the best way to use the display is in "Full" mode, which means that the display's wide physical gamut is available to the computer. Of course, to achieve this, the Mac Pro must know the gamut, whitepoint and gamma of the LP2480zx's "Full" mode. On Mac OS X, this is usually achieved when the graphics card reads the display's "EDID" (Extended Device ID), which is a string of bytes in the display, which report such things as the manufacturer ID, the model number, the date manufactured, the physical size, preferred resolutions, etc, etc. Among those data is information on the display's color space (R, G, B, W and gamma). As long as the display reports these parameters correctly, Mac OS X can apply color management, "knowing" the color parameters of the output device (the display). In my view, this is the best way to go. Or, if you want a Rec. 709 workflow, then you can experiment with the display in "Rec. 709" mode.

"Full" is definitely the appropriate choice if the RED images are encoded for a wide color gamut. In this case, the viewer application will have to perform the necessary color management which accounts for the source profile. Then, Mac OS X can use the LP2480zx's EDID to account for the output device profile, and the color transformations should be accurate and trustable. Just like any color-critical workflow, it's up to the user to ensure that the chain of color transformations (if any) is correct. The LP2480zx provides both wide gamut and accurate color space compliance, depending on how you want to stack your profiles.

One word of warning, though: By default, the display's EDID doesn't get updated when you change the color space mode of the display. The recipe at the end of this message shows you how to enable "Auto EDID Update" so that Mac OS X will be notified that you changed the preset, and will therefore re-read the EDID. Note that when this happens, the desktop will blank for moment while Mac OS X responds to what is effectively a hot-plug event.

Recipe for enabling Auto EDID Update (especially important for Mac users):

The as-shipped On Screen Display (OSD) settings of the LP2480zx will cause the Full gamut of the display to be reported whenever the EDID information is queried by the host computer even if a different color space preset is active. To enable the LP2480zx to report the active color space settings and immediately notify the host computer of the change, the Auto EDID Update setting (set to OFF in the factory) needs to be set to ON.

Mac users are especially encouraged to enable Auto EDID Update. When a monitor is connected to a Mac, the OS immediately reads the EDID and creates a color profile that reflects the color settings of the monitor. Since the LP2480zx can take on different color characteristics, if the user chooses anything other than the Full color space preset, if this change is not made, the Mac will install a color space profile that doesn’t match the current monitor settings. For example, if the user selects the sRGB color space preset, the applications that support color management will display very subdued colors.

The following steps will cause the monitor’s EDID information to be updated whenever a color space is changed, and will cause the Host to be notified by signaling Hot Plug Detection.

* Open the OSD
- Press any of the bezel buttons once
- Press the “Open OSD” button

* Open the Management screen
- The OSD opens on the “Main Menu”
- Press the “Next” bezel button until the “Management…” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Management” Menu

* Open the Auto EDID Update screen
- Press the “Next” bezel button until the “Auto EDID Update” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Auto EDID Update” Menu

* Change the “Auto EDID Update” setting to “ON”
- Press the “Reduce Set” bezel button until the “On” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Save” button
- Press the “Select/Open” button to action “Save and Return”

* Exit the OSD
- Press the “Exit OSD” bezel button

Note: The Hot Plug Detect Support must be Enabled for the monitor to immediately notify the host computer of the color space change. If Hot Plug Detect Support is Disabled, the host computer will not learn of the color space change until the next time it happens to request the EDID information. On a PC, that may not happen until the cable is disconnected and reconnected. On a Mac, the next time the system reboots or resumes from sleep it will re-read the EDID and install an appropriate color profile.

Hot Plug Detect Support

Some older video cards and drivers may not respond correctly to the Hot Plug Detect events sent by the LP2480zx. If the user experiences issues at startup (or resume from sleep) where the LP2480zx is either blank or attempts to display the screen briefly and then goes blank repeatedly, the user should Disable the Hot Plug Detect Support.

To access the “Hot Plug Detect Support”.

* Open the “Video Input Control” menu
- Press any of the bezel buttons once
- Press the “Input Select” button

* Open the “Hot Plug Detect Support” screen
- Press the “Next” bezel button to highlight the “Hot Plug Detect Support” selection
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Hot Plug Detect Support” Menu

* Change the “Hot Plug Detect Support” setting
- Press the “Reduce Set” bezel button until the “Disable” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Save” button to accept the highlighted choice

*Exit the OSD
- Press the “Exit OSD” bezel button

[ 本帖最后由 freedomfirst 于 2009-12-23 18:28 编辑 ]

freedomfirst

In fact, the discussions on REDuser (which I will try to get onto) are wrong in another respect: The processing is at 36 bits (12 per channel), not 30. Therefore, there are two paths to blessing, as it were:

1 - 8-bit pixels are color-transformed with 12-bit math and sent to the 10-bit panel. This reduces color error / increases color accuracy. And the 12-bit math helps to ensure that you don't get similar colors collapsing to the same color, for example.

2 - 10-bit pixels (when you get that 10-bit graphics card!) are passed straight through to the panel; at least in "Full" mode. Of course, in a color managed mode such as Rec 709, there'll be some reduction of the monitor's native color space to map onto the Rec 709 color space, which means that not all 1.07 billion colors are available. It's hard to say what the real number is, but if you imagine, say, 800-900 million it wouldn't be too far off. Still much better than an 8-bit panel. :-)

Regarding the apparent dithering seen by you and others, well, I've seen it too. From what I recall, it gets improved/fixed with newer firmware and with recalibration. But I'm following up with the engineers who work on the product, and I will let you know.

In the meantime, please let me know the firmware version of your display (look in the "Information" section of the OSD). Note that if I end up recommending that you update your firmware, you'll need a Windows PC or laptop to do it. We don't at this time have a Mac version of the firmware update tool.

vvhh1234

好乱啊 翻这么多有好处没啊。。看着很枯燥。。。
瞄了一眼
前面是大概说这玩意是完全可以作为技监，值得信赖，具有很广的满足广播标准的色域，是超值选择
然后就提到了实现这种显示器广色域需要的基础，给RED使用的话使用何种色域，然后是具体的如何设定机器的模式（FULL模式）以及查看现在机器色域模式的方法和一些小的技巧
后一个帖子说了RED用户讨论上有一些误区 然后：
1 8BIT像素使用12BIT算法显示在10biT面板上能更好的减少错误增加准确
2 10BIT像素在FULL模式下的显示器直接被显示，不用转换。显示器的色域是可以覆盖比如REC709标准的，但为了映射到这个标准，所以可能丢失了一些色彩，但是效果依然比8BIT面板好
然后就提到了固件对于性能的影响

[ 本帖最后由 vvhh1234 于 2009-12-23 22:09 编辑 ]

guoruo

嘿嘿,也是瞎搞的FCP+MAGIC BULLET LOOK

shsysqx

如果只是针对DCI母版或转胶片拷贝的话，用显卡DP接口直接到2408好了啊。
为什么还要通过DECKLINK呢，电视媒体需要用YUV信号来传输节省带宽，电影不会吧

sih196

CS4 MagicBullet

[ 本帖最后由 sih196 于 2010-2-10 00:03 编辑 ]

bgbgbg

这个帖子后发有力啊，精彩！

荷里时光

感觉还是原来第一张调的好看。

虽然不自然，不过看看现在的电影，锦衣卫的色彩，还有新版东邪西毒的色彩，哪个是自然的。

freedomfirst

回36楼
目前，大部分电脑显卡输出的信号是8BIT RGB无压缩信号，质量当然比8BIT YUV信号好，所谓的广播级数字视频，一般要求是422采样，8BIT YUV，并且大部分都是压缩的，一般是基于DCT算法的DV、MPEG2-I、MPEG4编码。
对于电视播出，8BIT量化已经足够，但制作阶段，特别是对于高质量电视节目，10BIT量化会好的多。对于数字电影或转胶，10BIT量化已经是最低要求。电影DI的标准中间格式是10BIT 对数RGB，大概相当于线性12BIT。
虽然有部分显卡可以硬件处理和输出线性10BIT RGB，但没有通用的软件系统来支持。NVIDIA有两款显卡FX4800/3600是可以通过SDI输出10BIT信号的，但价格比DECKLINK卡贵太多了，而且仅用在高端软件上，软硬件的价格一般人承受不起。当然前者是可以支持运算加速的。
至于普通液晶显示器和数字电影放映机色域上是有很大区别的，而DREAMCOLOR在色域上可以设置成DCI-P3,基本上能满足数字电影或转胶进行色彩监视的最低要求。

杜威

不懂，就会用VEGAS，瞎调

shsysqx

楼主说的这个方案是可行的，REDUSER已经有人这么做了，DreamColor的色域设置模式能满足广播高清和数字电影的要求，那么需要时常对DreamColor做校准，貌似HP有一个套装卖，带了校准设备，楼主已经入手DreamColor了吗？这方面你是怎么做的呢。转胶的话需要配合胶片记录仪的LUT和胶片本身型号的LUT，甚至胶片放映机的LUT来标定DreamColor，高端软件可以同时加载多个LUT的设置，比如LUSTRE，苹果COLOR能不能我不清楚，这方面是个问题。要不怎么Da Vinci，FilmLight与胶转磁，磁转胶的设备放在一个房间呢。没有胶磁转换设备，跟第三方公司合作，让他们配合提供LUT的话可行么，因此，做胶片电影没有大手笔还是有不少障碍。数字电影我想可以。

[ 本帖最后由 shsysqx 于 2010-11-10 17:33 编辑 ]

basis

盛唐印象

我这是用COLOR1.0.4版调的，因为是JPEG的图片调的，精度有些问题，我觉得还原真实颜色和光线是最重要的，这样才能对后面的感情色偏向起到基本标准作用。声明一下，只是在讨论，本人不是专业人员，半路出家，没有专业监视器，只是对着一个非常不准的LG的T711S CRT显示器调的，不当之处，请勿见怪。

[ 本帖最后由 盛唐印象 于 2010-4-12 17:26 编辑 ]

vvhh1234

原帖由 盛唐印象 于 2010-4-12 17:23 发表
我这是用COLOR1.0.4版调的，因为是JPEG的图片调的，精度有些问题，我觉得还原真实颜色和光线是最重要的，这样才能对后面的感情色偏向起到基本标准作用。声明一下，只是在讨论，本人不是专业人员，半路出家，没有专业 ...

看不到图

yinian

小弟上一张

vvhh1234

原帖由 yinian 于 2010-4-27 22:59 发表
小弟上一张

这个不错！看出功底了

yinian

原帖由 vvhh1234 于 2010-4-27 23:11 发表
这个不错！看出功底了

多谢版主鼓励 ，请多指点！

left1905

我用DF调的，没想到降噪还是那么好

spanky

原帖由 shsysqx 于 2010-3-24 06:17 发表
go on ,楼主说的这个方案是可行的，REDUSER已经有人这么做了，DreamColor的色域设置模式能满足广播高清和数字电影的要求，那么需要时常对DreamColor做校准，貌似HP有一个套装卖，带了校准设备，楼主已经入手DreamCol ...

关于磁砖胶 胶转磁 使用的是什么机器 能不能大概介绍下啊 电影后期的剪辑都使用什么软件 什么平台 能不能专贴 介绍下啊

joney

你们哪里来的素材在调啊？我操！我拍的我都没有素材你们那里来的?

fidudiduli

虽然看不懂，但这一定是个好帖子！

yb2518

八仙过海，各显神通呀，哈哈

麦田守望者

我之前对4k文件进行调色的时候是用的最便宜的PC系统，开始用ae；后来用了nuke
但是我发现nuke来处理也还不错！
支持r3d文件直接导入处理

我用nuke处理了下

大侠多多指点   话说没看出这个是男的还是女的！！！！！我同事说是女的，我说是男的！ 阿门!



[ 本帖最后由 麦田守望者 于 2010-11-12 19:44 编辑 ]

jwaycjw

虽然时隔一年 看到此贴仍是精神一振

[ 本帖最后由 jwaycjw 于 2010-12-8 14:47 编辑 ]

awalove

color粗调后结果

[ 本帖最后由 awalove 于 2010-12-8 14:46 编辑 ]

zhouyinanwo

小弟也来练练手

111

lts

调色，一个久远的话题。有标准的监视器吗？

endoo

原帖由 yinian 于 2010-4-27 22:59 发表
小弟上一张

这张超赞.