关于在产电影镜头的道听途说

zeiss-leica

http://forum.xitek.com/thread-824310-1-1-1.html
这是我在无忌的帖子，希望对不太了解电影头的人有些许帮助。最近不怎么研究镜头了，所以没有啥新消息了。里边的事情都不是我说的，所以肯定比我说的靠谱。

zeiss-leica

很喜欢这个背心，而已，而已。

zeiss-leica

同样是PL卡口，看看莱卡的钛和zeiss的钢。

fatcathome

zeiss-leica 发表于 2012-2-29 21:17
同样是PL卡口，看看莱卡的钛和zeiss的钢。

相对更喜欢钢，钛是很硬，但是很脆~ apple G4 钛本本用户的感受...呵呵~~

zeiss-leica

刚看了http://www.reduser.net/forum/sho ... the-hell-out-of-it!那个帖子,其中一段说佳能50L居然比zeiss MP50/T1.3还sharp。
Ketch, I'll never take what you say the wrong way.  
So all is cool.
We are all big boys, been around for years, shot everything from 10x8 t0 super 8... been there done that. Made our millions... So its ok to share with me some of your thoughts and experiences.

Regarding the Master primes, 50mm Canon back to back we did (and only for a bit of fun) ... nobody was more agasp more than me... I was just bragging to every with me at the time that the Master primes will eat the canon for breakfast... we shot the same thing, put it up on a huge projector and a 2.4 screen, ZOOMed up to 100% 200% 400% 800%... quite literally made a fool of myself because there was not a single bit of difference... on the edges included. That was @ f8.
If I cut the slate of the front, you would think it was from the same lens.

The worst was about to come, both lenses were set to f1.2 for the canon, f1.3 for the master prime... Ouch. The Canon was sharper.
Sorry mate.... Proof is in the pudding....

Mind you! Here me out...

I have had many lenses from nikon, Arri, and Canon over the years, (to many) And quite often I have swapped them out. I went through 3 different 600m F4's before I got a sharp one. 2 - 4002.8's 4 - 16 to 35's before I got a sharp one, 2 - 50mm 1.2's before I get a sharp one..... and I have never been able to send back my soft 18mm Ultra prime.. or soft 18 and 24mm Ziess... We had a soft 29 - 290 soft one day.. so not all lenses are built the same.

Regarding Leica glass... Well. Only the crazy rich will ever know the quality of Leica.

Regarding hanging my EPIC off the 600mm... Seriously does not worry it, but would hate to drop it... thats when it gets messy. But I doupt Ill do it again anyway, becuase it was out of balance. I'm going to make a rig to balance it.

At the end of the day, we all have done our personal testing, some more than others. I went into my canon lens testing only for a laugh... As plastic toy lenses have never floated my boat... but surprise surprise... Reminds me of when I got my first RED 5 years ago. We only bought it to replace a DV CANON XL1... hahahahaha... What we got was another shock.

So life goes on...

zeiss-leica

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arturojacoby/
电影头内部构造，有新的了。

zeiss-leica

去年去北京BirTV看了看，摸了总价2百万的镜头，说说即时感受。
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我又要“黑德”了，就没见过德产zeiss机械这么差的镜头。
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1.大约合计摸了以下几只头，安琴最新的45-120，安琴30-80，安琴16-42，zeiss ultraprime 28/50/65/85mm，zeiss LWZ.2（或许是LWZ，没好好看，反正是PL口版本的），fuji给arri贴牌的45-450和18-80，fuji自己的18-85，佳能的30-300（前边忘了，反正是到300mm的一个大变焦），cooke S4i 50mm，cooke panchro/i 25mm，sony PL 85mm，RED RPP100mm，zeiss CP.2 18/25/85mm，安琴的一个很老的大约是17-102的镜头，差不多就这些吧，保不齐忘了一两只。最顶级的zeiss MP12/MP 100微/ UP 8R都放在柜子里，没好意思叫人家拿，太大了，眼不见不知道有多大呀，我可以形容一下，在MP12面前ZF100就有点佳能500/4和ZF100比的感觉，那叫一个炮弹。

2.说说机械手感，拧这些镜头的各种环，变焦啦对焦啦光圈啦。
手感最好的是安琴，新款镜头一般阻尼要低一些，安琴和cooke的新款镜头阻尼都比较低，手感很顺滑，金属部分感觉也比较硬朗。安琴和cooke不愧是最顶级的欧洲厂家。比较新的CP.2，RPP，sony PL，fuji，佳能PL这些头的手感都比较接近，阻尼比较适中，也很顺滑，但是sony PL感觉比较塑料确实是，摸了两支不同的sony PL，手感也不太一样，其中一只就不错，另一只就奔zeiss UP去了。最差的当属zeiss UP和LWZ，5只镜头的手感相当的统一，阻尼适中有点偏大，但是一涩一涩的，怎么就那么不顺滑，我只在用烂了的sony 24-70ZA上体会过还没这么差的手感，关键是一顿一顿的，这要是摄影头，我肯定不买了，简直就是坏掉了，无论是对脚还是光圈，都有沙沙的摩擦感觉。你要说一只头坏掉了，或者进土了啥的，五只不同的镜头完全一致的手感，那就很说明问题了。我不知道这次参展的头使用情况如何，看外观还是很新的，但是肯定赶不上那只很旧的安琴17-102，也赶不上自家的CP.2，不知道为啥，需要行家证明一下。上了跟焦器就不太明显了，难道是zeiss特意的？反正捷成的工作人员对zeiss的手感也很无奈。大家不信自己找个机会试试吧，反正我是不会买任何在产的德国造zeiss电影头了。
3.安琴的45-120正经体会了一把完全没有呼吸效应，安琴现在的镜头，第一片镜片都是固定不动的。cooke的S4i 50和panchro/i 25由于镜头第一片镜片会向前移动，能看到轻微的呼吸，其他镜头没太体会，CP.2镜头镜片组的移动和ZF镜头一样，呼吸效应也没有改善。
4.cooke的镜头感觉相貌上都不是特别显得新，也许就是要这种亚光效果，你要不认识cooke，一点都不扎眼，一不小心才发现身边的机器上原来刻着cooke的黄字。安琴比较显眼，尤其是DP系列，那是多远都能看得到，建议大家买的时候定一个黑色橡胶的，比较低调，蓝的和红的都太刺激。别跟我说安琴DP没有黑的啊，安琴网上说了，你可以订黑红兰三种橡胶颜色的同一镜头。
5.zeiss LWZ和安琴的变焦镜头的构造基本是差不多的，都是镜片组在四个槽里移动，和50年代安琴变焦头的构造差不多，当年是用弹簧在四个槽里拉着镜片组，我仔细看了看也没太看清楚，安琴貌似多少还有弹簧的遗迹。
6.sony PL85的色彩和zeiss CP.2 85的色彩不是很一样，也许和搭载不同的机身有关，CP.2 85更乌涂一些，sony PL虽不是特别清爽，但也算是不输CP.2，有时候前景感觉比CP.2更好，但是背景感觉有点不敞亮，反正两者对颜色的还原不是太一样，总之sony PL还是有些性价比的。
7.这些电影头的分辨率绝对够用了，佳能fuji对着模特看，在22寸监视器上看，那头发丝！zeiss UP和LWZ也是反差十足，取景器里是比较清爽的亮。安琴没机会捷到监视器上看，只能对着arri435的取景器瞄了瞄，啥也没看出来，cooke panchro/i 25接RED Epic 5K，通过约8寸10寸的小监视器看，拍人绝对是很清楚，25mm全开也能感觉出半身人像从背景中脱颖而出，很有味道，但是看远一点的指示牌，貌似清晰度一般了些，这东西不对比一下，也只是随便说说罢了。
8.此次参展都不是专业电影商的器材展，人家是广播器材为主，所以没有最顶级的电影头。
9.听一个漂亮姐姐说安琴的45-120前面能接一个tiffen特殊规格的圆形电影滤镜，拧上去的，和咱们用UV的感觉一样，但是另一个卖安琴的帅哥却说那不是安琴的产品，他不太清楚。有待证实。我个人估计应该是108mm或109mm。如果要能有此种产品，那太完美了。

先说这么多，想起啥来再补充。

[2011-08-29 17:09 补充如下]

10.原来看图片，总以为cooke S4i 50mm，zeiss UP 50mm这种头的镜片很小，capss说的硬币大小，看了实物才知道，其实很大的，我觉得怎么也得有zeiss ZF50 1.4大，正经不小呢，还是画幅APS镜头。zeiss UP 65mm的镜片直径就相当令我满意了，UP85那绝对是大眼睛。

zeiss-leica

http://reduser.net/forum/showthr ... eux-optomo-DP/page3

A tech from cooke, actually told me at NAB that the Panchro 18mm is sharper than the S4 18mm, and is on par or slightly sharper than the i5 18mm @T2.8, Despite the massive price difference.

历史性地证明，镜片大就是王道。一个廉价版的cooke panchro/i 18mm，依仗其110口径和T2.8相对小的光圈，在两倍于自己身价的兄长面前，一点也不软弱。

zeiss-leica

曾经blogspot.com还能看的那个时段，我下载了一篇Cooke chairman, Les Zellan的采访，题目是How to Cooke up a high-end lens ，2009.12.15。里边有一段话，看看cooke的设计目标，就是高分辨率低反差。低反差，而不是现代主流的高反差。
The Cooke look
Its lenses are renowned for having a warm, attractive look. "The Cooke look is real. It tends to be a much more dimensional look than our competitors. The lenses are also warm, and flatter the subject," he said.

The designers aim for high resolution, but lower contrast, to give better results on film (or sensor) rather than in the viewfinder.

zeiss-leica

http://reduser.net/forum/showthr ... -Meets-Leica/page10
有人对莱卡summilux-C 75mm最初的版本表示疑问。第#92贴
All that aside... I was wondering, why would Leica let the 75mm be noticeably softer than the rest? I think it might be plenty sharp for me, especially for what I would use it for, mostly close ups. But why not sharper? There should be no compromise on a no-compromise set. And those times when 75mm is the right choice will present themselves; Tom's shot used as a POV for example. I am not saying lens design is easy, but if they can do all that other magic stuffs, then I could only assume they can pull that off as well. Is it that they expected the lens to be used for CUs and thought, hey, people will like their CUs like this anyway? 'Cause that makes no sense, and I wouldn't think Leica would accept it that way... And finally, could this be a coating? Chances are they applied all the coating magic they had already, so it would most likely be an optical design change that would be needed, right? And one more thought... are these FINAL final? Did Otto Nemenz get any of their sets yet (which we all guess are the first production sets)?

zeiss-leica

http://reduser.net/forum/showthr ... c-Meets-Leica/page5
#47 #48贴

From my short impressions, I would strongly agree. The 21mm and 35mm seemed significantly sharper. Though we didn't pull back the chart projector far enough to my liking.

But it still seemed like the wides were sharper, insane-sharp, clearly needing more than 200 lines at the corners of S35 to properly gauge their resolving power, wide open!

I can't wait to see that 18mm!! thanks again for posting that grab Tom. Goes without saying that we want to see MOAR! (please)  
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21和35是莱卡S-C系列最锐的。75最“柔美”啦。

zeiss-leica

kinoptik的电影系列。http://www.pcking.net/BokehOptical/
这个就是代理啦。

zeiss-leica

http://oldlensclub.hk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4265
售價如下
Kinoptik 100mm F2 (kinoptik原場 Helicoid) T mount lens Price : 4925 Euro
Kinoptik 100mm F2 (BOC 改裝 Hasselblad or MACRO Version T)mount lens Price : 4650 Euro
Hasselblad Mount 方便轉接到各種中片幅接環
Kinoptik 50mm lens with SLR T mount Price : 3300 Euro (透過 T mount Adapter 轉到 Nikon, CANON EOS , PENTAX, SONY)
Kinoptik 75mm lens with SLR T mount Price : 3700 Euro (透過 T mount Adapter 轉到 Nikon,CANON EOS, PENTAX, SONY)

付款方式需電匯到台灣，款項金額以歐元 港幣均可, 如果能夠付款歐元是最好的。
有点动心呢。不过操作起来貌似比较麻烦的。尚须漫长的下决心的过程。

zeiss-leica

http://forum.mflenses.com/25mman ... -lenses-t36089.html
25mm& 50mm comparison Zeiss CY vs Zeiss cine lenses

zeiss-leica

我拿到了一份arri的部分产品的报价单，你会发现香港是个好地方。
安琴的报价稍微罕见一些，报俩给大家，出厂价和北京交货价
24-290，57750欧，￥745945
17-80，55000欧，￥710424
15-40，33250欧，￥429484
16-42，15435欧，￥208000
愿意T税的，可以亲自去香港取货，只有出厂的欧元报价外加150-300欧不等的运保费，没有别的中间商的费用了。

1243645240

呵呵  上回一个朋友搞了一个安琴老款17-102要十几万  

zeiss-leica

ZEISS Master Prime 14/T1.3 (covering a smaller Cine size sensor) has 17 elements and is 3X heavier than ZF.2 2.8/15.

劈荆斩棘

zeiss-leica 发表于 2012-3-22 21:19
ZEISS Master Prime 14/T1.3 (covering a smaller Cine size sensor) has 17 elements and is 3X heavier t ...

大师，您好！我是一个电影导演，近期准备买一台小小红，主要用于电影拍摄（300万一下投资的低成本电影），因手头没银子，没钱买好镜头，麻烦你帮忙参考一套二手镜头，或能和小小红配套的低价位新镜头，以及牌子、价位等。考虑到还要对外出租，外表还不能太差了。向您请教了！我的QQ是1056357612，王立新

fatcathome

a_l_n 发表于 2012-4-16 23:54
钛合金的耐磨性、刚性都不如钢好，只是密度比钢小，同时耐磨性比铝好很多，对于卡口来说正好够用。
钛也 ...

原来是这样啊，吼吼~~

zeiss-leica

cooke panchro/i已经出生3年了，终于找到第二张50mm镜头前端的不太清楚的照片了。说明此款50mmT2.8镜头，并非常规的双高斯设计，起码不会和ZF50/1.4是一个种的。

劈荆斩棘

zeiss-leica 发表于 2012-7-30 15:57
cooke panchro/i已经出生3年了，终于找到第二张50mm镜头前端的不太清楚的照片了。说明此款50mmT2.8镜头，并 ...

麻烦您是否知道这一套镜头多少钱，是那六只焦段的。谢谢

zeiss-leica

一年前的单只出厂价5222英镑，18那只比较贵一点，价格不太清楚，估计在6000多7000英镑。现在panchro/i价格见涨，可能稍贵了一点，但肯定比UP便宜。套装肯定比单只便宜。

zeiss-leica

http://forum.xitek.com/thread-935391-2-1-1.html
这位LZ（好像是陶宝的一家店主）倒给出了很多常见电影头的实拍，画质真不敢恭维啊。各位自行判断是不是值得买。