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[ARRI] 各种无限接近arri

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发表于 2016-10-22 18:22 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
几种说法都有1 松下的LT色彩最接近arri 2c300m2的色彩最接近arri 3 sony f55 slog3 to rec709 type A还是无限接近arri 4mini 4.6k也有说最接近arri已经被搞懵了!以上4种最近arii在本论坛都有帖子说过,到底哪种才是真正的最接近或者是这四种色彩本身就差不多,所以才会都接近?搞不懂!

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发表于 2016-10-22 18:33 | 显示全部楼层
奇怪的是没人说他的摄像机解决RED

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因为ARRI是标杆,red不是!  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-22 19:44
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发表于 2016-10-22 19:44 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 m365 于 2016-10-22 19:54 编辑
imagine 发表于 2016-10-22 18:33
奇怪的是没人说他的摄像机# ...

因为ARRI是标杆,它的质感最接近胶片,red不是!

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王导儿的头像就是有范..单车之恋...  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-22 21:08

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发表于 2016-10-22 21:08 | 显示全部楼层
m365 发表于 2016-10-22 19:44
因为ARRI是标杆,它的质感最接近胶片,red不是!

王导儿的头像就是有范..单车之恋...

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发表于 2016-10-22 22:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 xierui117 于 2016-10-22 22:11 编辑

arri也得一个一个镜头调色,想偷懒也是不行的。接近不接近根本不重要,A7S2 和 ARRI MINI对切,我手动调也能匹配。
机器不同确实是各有不同质感,但是差别并不明显,拉开画面差距的主要还是美术 造型 打光。
先把美术 造型 打光 做好吧,请个好点的调色师,决定性的主要还是人,有预算再挑机器镜头吧。
测试这种事情很难做,一要各种机器都有,二要各种常规典型场面色彩造型的场景都测试过,一般人真没这时间做详细测试对比。粗略测试的小经验靠谱率不高,标准不同,有的摄像大概看一眼就说像,有的是放大到技术监视器详细对比,有的只是对比某个情况的测试画面。

sony f55 slog3 to rec709 type A反正和ARRI差别巨大。
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发表于 2016-10-22 22:19 | 显示全部楼层
xierui117 发表于 2016-10-22 22:04
arri也得一个一个镜头调色,想偷懒也是不行的。接近不接近根本不重要,A7S2 和 ARRI MINI对切,我手动调也能 ...

老师是高手,但a7s和mini对切画面看不出来是不可能的。

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一集电视剧播过去。你告诉我哪个是A7S2 那个是ARRI MINI?估计明年播那个剧,到时候你告诉我。  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-22 22:31
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发表于 2016-10-22 22:31 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 xierui117 于 2016-10-22 22:34 编辑
m365 发表于 2016-10-22 22:19
老师是高手,但a7s和mini对切画 ...

一集电视剧播过去。你告诉我哪个是A7S2 那个是ARRI MINI?估计明年播那个剧,到时候你告诉我。有点差别,但是在反复暂停对比下才感觉得出来,顺着播过去说实话我不认真盯着看,我确实看不出来。

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马文

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发表于 2016-10-23 00:21 | 显示全部楼层
在完美和专业的影棚灯光情况下,F55最接近ALEXA。其他情况下LT最接近。

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马文老师 您好哇...  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-23 02:17

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发表于 2016-10-23 02:17 | 显示全部楼层
marvinhddvd 发表于 2016-10-23 00:21
在完美和专业的影棚灯光情况下,F55最接近ALEXA。其他情况下LT最接近。

马文老师 您好哇...

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发表于 2016-10-23 22:01 | 显示全部楼层
同级别的机器差别都不大,但是民用的跟专业的还会有些差别。
比如《一个勺子》里就有很大一段不知道什么机器拍的画面,画质很扎眼;此外《路边野餐》5D3长镜头跟根ALEXA的画面在大屏幕上区别也太明显了。
另一种情况是,尤其是美术灯光预算不太够的情况下,差别会更明显。
ARRI的画面其实是经过很多很多优化了才看着那么舒服,单如果经过正常调色匹配的话都无法明显看出来。
但是LZ提到的几个排下序,直出最接近的是LT,然后是C300M2,F55,再是4.6K,但是非常肯定的是,这几台经过匹配也不容易看不出来。

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我想知道马文和你是根据什么得出这个结论的? 高光,对比度,锐度,暗部? 好像你买了C300 mark 2,我看了几个side by side的C300 mark 2和LT的区别,还有LT和sony FS7的区别,质感还是有些不同的。我说的质感是指  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-24 11:28
我没有排序啊你误会了!排名不分最接近或最不接近的!随意举例的  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-23 22:12
我没有排序啊你误会了!排名不分最接近或最不接近的!随意举例的  详情 回复 发表于 2016-10-23 22:10

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 楼主| 发表于 2016-10-23 22:10 | 显示全部楼层
LUZIDE 发表于 2016-10-23 22:01
同级别的机器差别都不大,但是民用的跟专业的还会有些差别。
比如《一个勺子》里就有很大一段不知道什么机 ...

我没有排序啊你误会了!排名不分最接近或最不接近的!随意举例的

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 楼主| 发表于 2016-10-23 22:12 | 显示全部楼层
LUZIDE 发表于 2016-10-23 22:01
同级别的机器差别都不大,但是民用的跟专业的还会有些差别。
比如《一个勺子》里就有很大一段不知道什么机 ...

我没有排序啊你误会了!排名不分最接近或最不接近的!随意举例的

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发表于 2016-10-23 23:22 | 显示全部楼层
LUZIDE 发表于 2016-10-23 22:01
同级别的机器差别都不大,但是民用的跟专业的还会有些差别。
比如《一个勺子》里就有很大一段不知道什么机 ...

路边野餐 后期稳定放大的得厉害,就是还是用arri 画质也会差不少。。。
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发表于 2016-10-24 11:28 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 imagine 于 2016-10-24 12:57 编辑
LUZIDE 发表于 2016-10-23 22:01
同级别的机器差别都不大,但是民用的跟专业的还会有些差别。
比如《一个勺子》里就有很大一段不知道什么机 ...

我想知道马文和你是根据什么得出这个结论的?
高光,对比度,锐度,暗部?
好像你买了C300 mark 2,我看了几个side by side的C300 mark 2和LT的区别,还有LT和sony FS7的区别,质感还是有些不同的。我说的质感是指画面细腻度,颜色这些方面。感觉LT的颗粒感要重一点,FS7要细腻些,用贬义词就是SONY FS7 涂抹感要重一些,好像后期加了除噪点的滤镜。C300和LT颜色差别较大(直出无调色)。

附:一个外国人的评价,不知道中不中肯
Overall we loved the camera. It’s larger than comparable cameras but that didn’t bother me. Having shot on the majority of other popular camera systems i.e Alexa, RED, Canon, Sony and Blackmagic I can say that in our opinion this comes the closest to matching the Alexa in terms of skin tone rendering straight out of camera. There’s no argument that the Alexa is the champion of skin tones but if shooting RAW isn’t an issue than this thing rocks. **RAW output via the 3G-SDI port will be enabled via firmware later this summer, so it will have that ability soon. Just not internally.

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发表于 2016-10-25 22:32 | 显示全部楼层
Looking For An Alternative To The Arri Alexa? These 3 Cinema Cameras Have You Covered At A Lower Cost
Posted On July 8, 2016
I don’t think I’ve met a single filmmaker in recent years who hasn’t marvelled over the Arri Alexa. Even with so much competition in the digital cinema camera market, there is no denying that the Arri Alexa is still without a doubt the camera to beat. In many ways, the Alexa look has even replaced film with regards to the base-line aesthetic that most of today’s filmmakers strive for. I’ve outlined this sentiment in more detail on a previous blog post here.
What makes it so great though? For a long time people chocked it up to dynamic range. When the Alexa was first introduced, very few cameras delivered anywhere near the DR that the Alexa was capable of. But today, there are many cameras that have dynamic range capabilities that are at least within arms reach of the Alexa – yet still none of them look as good.
The reason why is simple: Color science. In my opinion, color matters more than anything else when it comes to the visual perception of a cinematic image. Resolution, dynamic range, grain, motion cadence, and many other factors play an important role too… But color science is at the very top of that list. A camera with less dynamic range but better color science will look more “filmic” than a camera with high dynamic range and poor color science. I believe that many of Sony’s recent offerings prove this point clearly.
Unfortunately for the vast majority of independent filmmakers, the Alexa is simply a far too expensive tool to own. Even Arri’s lowest cost offerings (such as the Alexa Mini and Amira), will cost anywhere from $35K – $45K as base price, and will jump up significantly once the accessories are added. Inevitably, this has led many low budget filmmakers into a desperate search for affordable Alexa alternatives that can deliver similar image quality at a lower cost.
It’s worth stating up front that the only way to get the exact “Alexa-look” that you may be after is to actually shoot on an Arri Alexa (or Arri Amira). That said, a few select cameras in recent years have come reasonably close to emulating the Alexa’s legendary image quality, and should be considered as viable alternatives for filmmakers that don’t want to break the bank.
Below is a short list of three cameras that in my opinion render colors and images that are most similar to the Arri Alexa. Keep in mind, the list below doesn’t necessarily reflect usability, features/specs, ergonomics, reliability, and many other considerations. Rather, these cameras have been chosen based on the characteristics of their image quality – specifically color quality – and how strongly they hold up next to the Alexa.
Here we go. In order of most expensive to least:
PANASONIC VARICAM LT – $16,500
With a price tag of over $16K for the body, or over $27K once fully accessorized, the Varicam LT clearly makes for a pricey investment. Even still, at minimum it will be 2 – 3 x less expensive than a brand Arri Alexa, depending on how each camera is configured. Not to mention, as a rental item, the LT is going to cost far less than the Alexa and will generally be much more accessible to lower budget filmmakers.
Let’s take a look at some of the specs:
Single Super 35mm MOS Sensor
Interchangeable Stainless Steel EF Mount
Dual Native ISO 800/5000
14 Stops of Dynamic Range with V-Log
4K Up to 60 fps, 2K/HD Up to 240 fps
Simultaneous Dual Codec Recording
Selectable Gamma Curves
Removable IR Cut Filter
AVC-Intra, ProRes
3.5″ LCD Control Panel
Obviously, this camera boasts some incredibly powerful features, namely it’s dual native ISO capabilities which allow users to choose between ISO 800 or ISO 5000 as their base. But most importantly, the subjective image quality of the LT is absolutely incredible, and is arguably one of the best out there today.
Panasonic-Varicam-LT-vs-Arri-Alexa
Panasonic Varicam LT – $16,500 at B & H
The Varicam LT shares the same sensor as it’s bigger brother (the Varicam 35), which has been used to shoot some really gorgeous looking content – including the Netflix original series “Master of None”. Both cameras not only feature beautiful dynamic range capabilities that allow them to create detailed, rich images, but they also render extremely organic colors. This is what ultimately helps them achieve that Alexa look above all else. While footage from the Varicam LT might not be an exact match for Alexa footage straight off of the cards, the files are very flexible in post, and once graded they can easily hold their own.
CANON C300 MK II – $11,999
I’ve had a love/hate relationship with Canon for a long time, and presently don’t own any of their cinema cameras. With that in mind, I can’t deny that the Canon C300 MK II excels in the color department, which is really no surprise. Over the years, Canon have fallen by the wayside as other manufacturers have run laps around them with higher frame rates, more resolution, and better overall specs, but Canon has always delivered some of the best colors out there, which is largely why they are still relevant.
Before we go on, here are some specs on the C300 MK II:
Super 35mm CMOS Sensor
4K,1920×1080 60/50i, 23.98/25p True 24p
Canon XF AVC H.264 Codec
EF Lens Mount
Dual Pixel CMOS AF Technology
Rotating 4″ LCD Monitor
2x 3G-SDI Output, 2x XLR Inputs
2x CFast Card Slots
Timecode I/O, Genlock In & Sync Out
Canon Log 2 Gamma
Canon’s C-series cameras have a long history of under promising and over delivering. Their cameras never look great on paper, but they always seem to deliver really strong images that far exceed what you might expect of them based on their spec sheets alone. Canon have also been accused of overpricing their cameras (I’m sure I’ve called them out on that myself), but with the recent $4000 price drop, the C300 Mark II is now more accessible than ever. And while their colors might not always look Alexa-like right out of the box, Canon has a new trick up their sleeves –
The C300 MK II now comes with a “Production” camera profile that is designed to mimic the color science of the Arri Alexa. When combined with Arri’s Rec. 709 conversion LUT in post, the resulting images between the two cameras are almost too close to call the difference on. For this reason, the C300 MK II is often used as a B-Camera to the Arri Alexa or simply as a cost-effective alternative for the A-camera.
Canon-C300-Vs-Arri-Alexa
Canon C300 Mark II – $11,999 at B & H
For those of you that don’t think you can achieve great narrative results on the C300 MK II, I’ll remind you that the 2013 Cannes Palm D’or winner (Blue Is The Warmest Color), was shot on the original Canon C300.
BLACKMAGIC CINEMA CAMERA 2.5K – $1995
By far the best bargain on this list, the original Blackmagic Cinema Camera was hailed as the “Alexa Mini” when it was first released, and for good reason. Although the ergonomics, build, and overall design of the BMCC couldn’t be more different than the Alexa, the overall image quality is amongst one of the best matches to the Alexa to this day. The subtle colors, high dynamic range, and natural texture of the BMCC’s images are just a few of the reasons why this camera disrupted the cinema camera industry in such a dramatic way.
Here are the specs:
2.5K Image Sensor
12-bit RAW, ProRes, and DNxHD Formats
13 Stops of Dynamic Range
23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30p Frame Rates
Canon EF Lens Mount
LCD Touchscreen with Metadata Entry
SDI Video Output and Thunderbolt Port
Mic/Line Audio Inputs
Records to Removable SSD Drives
Includes DaVinci Resolve and UltraScope
The fact that the original BMCC even shot at 2.5K (very close to the older Alexa model’s 2.7K ARRIRAW capabilities), made it even more compatible with the Alexa as a B-cam or C-cam. But as I stated above, the most important consideration here is the color science, and the 2.5K BMCC has some of the strongest color science I have seen on any camera to date. I am a big fan of Blackmagic and currently shoot on their URSA Mini 4.6K (also a fantastic camera), but it has a distinctly different look than the BMCC 2.5K.
Blackmagic-BMCC-Vs-Arri-Alexa
Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K – $1995 at B & H
With the URSA Mini 4.6K, Blackmagic have started to really define a “look” for themselves, much like RED has with their camera lineup. It goes without saying that the 4.6K generates beautiful images across the board, but they have a personality of their own, whereas the original 2.5K BMCC comes closer to an exact match for the Alexa – at least to my eye.
FINAL THOUGHTS
Arri have managed to strike gold with the Alexa in the color-department, and as stated at the top of this post, the only way to get a perfect Alexa look is to actually shoot with an Arri Alexa or Arri Amira. That said, the cameras on this list can get you really close when treated right on set and in post. Once you know the quirks and limitations of these cameras (or any camera for that matter) you will be able to squeeze the most out of them from a technical standpoint.
Post-production and color processing are also huge. Shooting with a color chart on set, and balancing your shots effectively in post are two of the most crucial steps in ensuring that you achieve the best possible results. In the end though, your skills on set and in the color suite will be the biggest factors in your overall ability to achieve a cinematic look, and that is something that should never be overlooked.
For those of you looking to improve your results in the color department, be sure to check out my recently released Cinema LUT Packs by clicking here.
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