松下GH5有多好？
GH5这个机型一出 相信好多中小工作室都会考虑转移入手了1W多的价格和各种性能都足以吸引各种蠢蠢欲动犹犹豫豫的买手
昨天CINIMA5D做了个GH5的测试 各为看官过过瘾再决定入不入手
原文如下
The Panasonic GH5 is one of the most highly-anticipated compact cinema cameras of the year. It is the first of its kind to finally break the barrier towards a compact form-factor 10-bit 4K acquisition in the realm of (somewhat) large sensor cameras. Here is our lab analysis, where we will evaluate all the pros and cons of the new GH5 sensor, with a focus on the new 4K 10-bit mode.Note that we used a production camera model with preliminary firmware (v1.00) for this test.
Panasonic GH5 ReviewAfter a short delay, here is our long awaited Panasonic GH5 lab review. We tried to publish this earlier, but our questions surrounding the 10-bit mode required more investigation before we could put this new camera to use. Yesterday we finally received firmware 1.00 with a V-log activation, and were able to re-test and confirm our findings. Also check out the preliminary hands-on that Graham did in January.
Panasonic GH5 with a Speedboster Ultra and the Zeiss 50mm Cp2 Macro Lens
In this Panasonic GH5 review, we will run the usual tests we do here at cinema5D, and look at several important sensor attributes like dynamic range, sharpness and rolling shutter performance. We will also try to evaluate the low-light performance and take a particular look at 10-bit.We test all cameras with the same Zeiss 50mm Cp2 macro lens (more on how we test HERE). In the case of the Panasonic GH5, the lens was attached via EF-mount with the Metabones Speedbooster Ultra adapter, which gives us excellent optical performance. For our dynamic range test we use a DSC labs XYLA-21 transmissive test chart, and to measure sharpness we use a combination of a subjective chart and a huge 8K Imatest ISO chart. Let’s get started.The Panasonic GH5 Introduces 10-bit 4KThat the Panasonic GH5 introduces 10-bit color depth is this camera’s most interesting feature, and one that had many filmmakers (including myself) excited for the last couple of months. But looking at the camera’s specs, there are other aspects to like:
[*]MFT-size sensor with slightly larger sensor area than the GH4
[*]5-axis internal image stabilisation
[*]Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 in 4K (up 30fps)
[*]Internal 8-bit 4:2:0 in 4K (up 60fps)
[*]Up 180fps in 1080p
[*]Dual SD card slots
[*]No recording time limit
[*]V-Log Gamma (paid upgrade $100)
[*]Affordable price
A firmware update later this year will bring 6K photo mode, anamorphic recording as well as internal DCI 4K 10-bit with a 400mbit all-I codec. Currently, we’re stuck with 150mbit, which is fine too and should give us great results.But let’s go into 10-bit color depth right away. We were really eager to test it and expected to see silky smooth skin gradations and footage with rich color information from Vlog recordings. After all, many of us have been shooting 8-bit color for much too long and the step up to 10-bit should make a huge difference, going from millions into 1.1 billion colors, especially as we’re using flat gamma on all our productions now, with V-log on this nice new GH5 camera to be specific. Many were frustrated with Vlog on the GH4, so let’s see how the performance was improved.
Panasonic GH5 10-bit & Vlog ProblemsNote that we used a production camera model, supplied by Panasonic. We were told firmware was pre-production (v1.00)We were initially impressed when we saw GH5 10-bit footage. With the right coloring or LUT, the results do look more organic and filmic than most of what we’ve seen in the area of small form-factor cinema cameras that shoot 8-bit. But after trying Vlog and tweaking the colors a bit more, I just couldn’t get those skin tones to look nice. In fact, I had to give up at one point and accept what was dawning on me: something was wrong with Vlog on the GH5. But a claim like that after a simple look at random test footage is never enough, so the only way to confirm this observation was to do a proper side-by-side comparison with a few other cameras. Luckily, we also had a Sony FS7, Canon C700 and Canon 1DC lying around at cinema5D HQ. Two of those cameras shoot 10-bit internal, and one of them is in fact a seriously expensive and high end camera (C700), so that should give us some perspective.
Panasonic GH5 Skin Tones Vlog – Minimal Grading, 10bit
So we recorded my hand and face to demonstrate the way this sensor interprets skin tones. The color depth is set to 10bit, we shot in V-log and did a rough rec.709 grade to match the other cameras. Skin tones are kept natural – by which I mean that yellow and green tints were kept “as is”. What was a bit disturbing to me is not only that some areas of the shot exhibit very basic color information, but that the adjacent color areas are so diverse. In one place my hand is green and in another it is pink and there is no gradation in between. These are very clear low bit-depth artifacts which don’t make me look very flattering.The window on the left is a 150% crop of my cheek with a 25% boost in saturation, so you can see the areas of separated color more clearly.
Panasonic GH5 Skin Tones Vlog – Minimal Grading, 8bit
Here is the same shot in 8-bit mode on the Panasonic GH5. The poor color gradation is slightly more obvious here, but to be honest I cannot spot a huge difference in comparison to 10-bit. But shouldn’t 10-bit give us 1024 colors for each channel, resulting in over a billion distinct colors???It is true that a flat gamma like V-log greatly diminishes color information in exchange for extended dynamic range and softer highlights and shadows. But still, I was a bit underwhelmed with the many color areas I saw on the GH5. So, let’s take a look at the other cameras.
Canon 1D C Skin Tones – Minimal Grading, 8bitHere’s the Canon 1D C. And yes, I can see the same kind of minimal color information there, resulting in large areas with a single color. What I also see is that different areas of my skin have different colors, but I see fewer pink and green blocks, resulting in a better skin tone harmony. Anyway, the 1D C is a dead horse, so let’s move on to other 10-bit cameras.
Sony FS7 Skin Tones – Minimal Grading, 10bit
Ah, finally, the Sony FS7 brings a “bit” more depth to our eyes. Surprisingly, I can still make out those color artifacts in the skin, and bit depth seems to be less than expected, but clearly not as bad as on the GH5. When we look at the 150% crop window on the left, we can see that those patches have both better skin tone harmony and fewer color blocking artifacts.
Canon C700 Skin Tones – Minimal Grading, 10bit
Here is where it gets interesting. The Canon C700 is a camera that comes in a huge form factor and with a high price tag. A serious moviemaking camera. The latest flagship Canon C camera also shoots 10-bit ProRes in 4K DCI, so that’s what I chose for this shot. Of all the cameras, this one definitely gave us the best skin tones, best color harmony and the least color blocking artifacts. But still, I could make out rough color gradations in several areas.10-bit Conclusion
Panasonic GH5 Skin Tones 10bit compared to other cameras
It seems that none of these cameras truly records 1.1 billion colors and, unless my skin is made up of distinct color patches, there seems to be more to “10-bit color” than we know. Having tested and evaluated many camera sensors here at cinema5D, I can tell you this: none of this camera tech is as easy and simplistic as it might seem. Camera manufacturers try really hard to make it all work according to our expectations, but there are limitations everywhere. So if you truly want a 10-bit look in scientific terms, you should probably just keep in mind that we always get less in practice than on paper, so simply shoot 12-bit…As for the Panasonic GH5… There really seems to be a problem with Vlog’s bit depth and colors, with skin tones being particularly problematic. In a last effort, I also tested sky gradations, because this is how everyone else seems to tests color depth too:
Panasonic GH5 10 bit color depth. Graded with official Panasonic Vlog to rec709 LUT
I applied the official Panasonic Vlog to rec709 LUT to the shot above and increased contrast. The image wasn’t altered in any other way. We have forwarded our findings to Panasonic and hope that this issue will be resolved in one of the upcoming firmwares.
Many people had hopes that the GH5 would solve many of the problems everyone had had with Vlog on the 8-bit GH4. Unfortunately it seems like those problems persist.Better 8-bit / 10-bit Quality in PP “Neutral”Now if we put Vlog aside for a moment and look at a different picture profile we get a big surprise: Those color gradations look nicer than on most other compact 8-bit cinema cameras we’ve seen before. Really nice!
Panasonic GH5 – Picture Profile: “Natural” – Nice color gradations
As you can see in the shot above I used PP “Natural”. The results were pleasing, both in 10-bit as well as in 8-bit mode. There are no pink and yellow color artifacts and colors and gradations seem correct. Even when we push that image’s contrast we see there is a lot of room for grading before the image finally falls apart:
Panasonic GH5 – Picture Profile: “Natural” – Contrast Pushed
The only thing we noticed was that there is again, no difference between the 10-bit recording and the 8-bit recording. When we push the contrast to the extreme (image above) we can spot where the colors break apart, but they do so on both recordings, so there is actually little to benefit in shooting 10-bit on the Panasonic GH5 whatsoever. A pity! Never the less, even the 8-bit mode, in any picture profile besides Vlog, looks very nice in terms of 8-bit color depth.Note that we used a production camera model, supplied by Panasonic. We were told firmware was pre-production (v1.00)
Dynamic RangeNow that this is out of the way, let’s focus on another important camera attribute – dynamic range. A good dynamic range rating allows us to capture a larger range of shadows and highlights in high-contrast scenes – an important property when it comes to evaluating a camera intended for filmic use.Our software was very strict with the GH5. We always take noise into account, because in all honesty, a very noisy image can only be recovered up to a limited degree as image information is quickly lost. With our usual SNR threshold of 1/0.5, our software measured a rough 10 stops of usable dynamic range on the Panasonic GH5. This is a slightly sub-normal rating. Both the Sony a7S II and the Fujifilm X-T2 have a higher rating. Here’s a screenshot of the dynamic range of a few popular cameras:
Panasonic GH5 Dynamic Range Test
We can see that the sensor’s total dynamic range is higher than those 10 usable stops, but in a real world scenario we think the noisy shadows will many times have to be cut away in grading. When used correctly, this camera can still produce admirable results. On a subjective scale – and if you don’t mind some noise in your images – this camera can probably give you 11 usable stops when you’re careful. You should just try to avoid underexposure on the Panasonic GH5.Noise and Low LightIn terms of noise and low light, the camera actually doesn’t perform as bad as expected when looking at that dynamic range chart at ISO 400, because in reality the camera also produces those same 10 stops of dynamic range at ISO 800. Quality only slightly degenerates at ISO 1600, and is at its breaking point at ISO 3200. At ISO 6400 the image clearly has much more noise and the color in the dark areas shifts towards yellow and magenta. You should only shoot beyond ISO 3200 with caution.In this image you can see a 100% crop of dynamic range steps 6 to 14:
Panasonic GH5 Lowlight ISO 800 to ISO 6400
On top of that, the MFT sized sensor and MFT mount also allows us to use the Metabones Speedbooster Ultra, which gives us an extra stop of exposure range and nice super35 shallow depth of field. So even though the out-of-thebox lowlight performance is only average, the Speedbooster can help us out a bit and improves the overall look as well.
Panasonic GH5 and Metabones Speedbooster Ultra
Rolling ShutterThe Sony a7S II suffered from strong rolling shutter problems, a phenomenon also referred to as “jello”. The rolling shutter phenomenon that we see on most CMOS sensor video cameras is also present on the Panasonic GH5, but is much less severe in comparison to many other cameras.
This is also down to the sensor size of the GH5. The MFT-sized sensor makes rolling shutter less of a problem.Image QualityImage Detail is the aspect where the Panasonic GH5 performs very well. If you disregard the 10-bit color blocking artifacts, the overall image is very organic and has very nice detail, comparable to cameras like the Fujifilm X-T2 or FS7.
100% crops for Image Detail
In terms of aliasing, the Panasonic GH5 also performs very well. In comparison to the aformentioned cameras, though, it is a bit weaker on vertical aliasing as the lines in our 8K test chart couldn’t be separated as nicely as on the FS7 for example.
Panasonic GH5 Vertical Aliasing
Panasonic GH5 vs. Sony a7S II – Subchart Image Details
The Sony a7S II has a problem with contrast areas. This is where the camera’s image gets soft and loses detail. The Panasonic GH5, in comparison, resolves all aspects of image detail very nicely and outperforms the a7s II in that regard, as you can see in the shot above. The slight grain (noise) in the Panasonic GH5 looks nice and filmic.
When using Vlog, it is important to set Sharpness (S) and Noise Reduction (NR) to -5. This gave us the best quality on the Panasonic GH5. Otherwise the image would look oversharpened.180fps Slow MotionIt is nice that the Panasonic GH5 gives us the option to shoot 180fps in HD resolution in such a small form factor. However, as on most other cameras this is much better on paper than in reality, because the true resolution and quality is actually less than 1080p.
Panasonic GH5 Slow Motion 180fps Image Quality compared to 25fps. 100% crop.
As you can see the quality in HD resolution is very nice whereas in slow motion mode, at 180fps, the image has visibly lower resolution and leans more towards an actual 720p.ConclusionThis has become a very long article, but some of those issues we found required some investigation and explanation. In conclusion it is no doubt that the Panasonic GH5 is a very tempting offer when you look for an affordable, compact cinema camera that can potentially produce some great looking footage. There is a 10-bit option, a 4K mode with nice details and a 180fps option. In reality though some of those features are a bit disappointing in practice.
Log gamma has become the goto option for filmmakers who want high quality cinematic results and avoid the “digital look” that some of those cameras can produce. Also it offers the most flexibility in grading and opens up a world of possibilities in terms of LUTs and camera matching. Unfortunately in our tests we saw that Vlog was a “bit” disappointing on the GH5, same as on the GH4 before it, and cautiously I would go as far as calling it “unusable” for most professional applications at this time. The color artifacts and underwhelming “10-bit” performance make videos shot on this camera hard to use in post and the 10-bit mode has almost the same look and quality as the 8-bit mode.If you can put the issues with Vlog aside and if you can settle with the other picture profiles, then the GH5 has some nice things in store for you. Even though most of its sensor performance (detail, dynamic range, lowlight, 180fps) is only average, the internal image stabilization was a pleasure to use for handheld applications, it gave me a very cinematic handheld look, the peaking is very useful and special features like the histogram and anamorphic recording options make this a more cinema capable camera than most other small handheld devices before.At the end of the day, if you had your money set on 10-bit, the Panasonic GH5 is currently not the most convincing choice and personally I would still rather pick up an 8-bit Sony a7S II or another one of those more affordable new MFT mirrorless cameras like the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II(review here) or Fujifilm X-T2 (review here). We have forwarded our remarks to Panasonic and hope they will react and fix the issues we found via a firmware update soon.Note that we used a production camera model, supplied by Panasonic. We were told firmware was pre-production (v1.00).
Pro’s
[*]MFT sensor works very well with Metabones Speedbooster Ultra for nice shallow depth of field.
[*]5-axis internal image stabilisation
[*]Advanced video shooting functions like peaking, histogram or anamorphic mode
[*]Very nice quality 8-bit mode! Up to 60fps in 4K
[*]Good image detail
[*]Up to 180fps (Quality is not up to 1080p standards though)
[*]Good rolling shutter perfomance
[*]Dual SD card slots
[*]No recording time limit
[*]Affordable price
Con’s
[*]Vlog is seriously flawed at the moment
[*]10-bit 4:2:2 mode looks the same as 8-bit 4:2:0 mode
[*]Dynamic range is limited
[*]Lowlight is average
[*]180fps mode has much less quality than actual 1080p
[*]Some Canon lenses did not work with the Metabones Speedbooster
经过测试 发现索尼的A7S ii和GH5才是兄弟 ^13^原帖地址
本帖最后由 色影 于 2017-3-3 20:57 编辑
再分享几个GH5的素材http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjU1NDEzNTI1Ng==/v.swf
static/image/hrline/5.gif
http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjU1NDEzNDg5Ng==/v.swf
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http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjU1NDEzNTA5Ng==/v.swf
底太小，是别家更新的推动力而已。马上 大法就会来一个更新，于是这个机机继续演绎高台跳水 机器有个用就可以了，比来比去，还不如好好创作来的实际啊，总体对的起那个价格就好了嘛。后续肯定是要固件升级继续吸粉的。。 横向对比给力 结论
这已经成为一篇很长的文章，但我们发现的一些问题需要一些调查和解释。总之，毫无疑问，松下GH5是一个非常诱人的优惠，当你寻找一个可负担得起，紧凑的电影摄影机，可以产生一些伟大的镜头。有一个10位选项，一个4K模式具有漂亮的细节和一个180fps的选项。在现实中，虽然其中一些功能在实践中有点令人失望。
对于想要高品质电影效果的电影制作者来说，对数伽玛已经成为了goto的选择，并避免了那些相机可以产生的“数字外观”。此外，它在分级中提供最大的灵活性，并在LUT和相机匹配方面打开了一个可能性的世界。不幸的是，在我们的测试中，我们发现Vlog在GH5上是一个“令人失望的”，与之前的GH4一样，谨慎地说，我认为对于大多数专业应用程序来说，它“不可用”。色彩伪像和难以置信的“10位”性能使得在这台相机上拍摄的视频难以在后期使用，10位模式具有与8位模式几乎相同的外观和质量。
如果你可以把问题放在一边，如果你可以解决与其他图片配置文件，那么GH5有一些很好的东西在商店为你。即使大多数的传感器性能（细节，动态范围，低光，180fps）只是平均值，内部图像稳定是一种享受用于手持应用程序，它给我一个非常电影手持外观，峰值是非常有用和特殊像直方图和变形录制选项这样的功能使这是一个更具电影能力的相机比大多数其他小型手持设备之前。
在一天的结束，如果你有你的钱设置在10位，松下GH5目前不是最有说服力的选择，我个人还是宁愿拿起一个8位的索尼a7S II或另一个更便宜的新的MFT无反射镜相机，如奥林巴斯OM-D E-M1 Mark II（在这里查看）或Fujifilm X-T2（在这里查看）。我们已将我们的备注转发给Panasonic，希望他们能够通过固件更新快速反应和解决我们发现的问题。
注意，我们使用了Panasonic提供的生产相机型号。我们被告知固件是预生产（v1.00）。 本帖最后由 宅达达 于 2017-3-5 17:05 编辑
10-bit 4:2:2 mode looks the same as 8-bit 4:2:0 mode
10bit 422跟8bit 420没什么区别？
可用动态范围只有10档，A7S2有12档
果冻效应较低
180fps的质量一般 本帖最后由 red8close 于 2017-3-3 05:03 编辑
这个文章的外国回帖里有客观的说法。机内压缩10bit 422有问题。还跟码流有很大关系。所以机外录制要好。这样的话GH4不必急于出手。GH5只有到年底才能看出是否值得购买。再者说BMD又有新机了。估计今年NBA是大年。 疯哥 发表于 2017-3-2 23:50 static/image/common/back.gif
结论
这已经成为一篇很长的文章，但我们发现的一些问题需要一些调查和解释。总之，毫无疑问，松下GH5是一 ...
结论是，a7s2机身还是比gh5贵……哈哈，开个玩笑
我始终坚持我的观点，机器功能数据不错，但是M43几乎不会吸引任何FX或者APS-C或者S35的用户，而现有的M43用户则肯定会变成，或者非常希望变成FX用户。 GH5 是个好机器 一万多的价格还是下不去手，坐等万元内^15^ 本帖最后由 上帝之猪 于 2017-3-3 16:28 编辑
我的心哇凉哇凉的！！！我预定了两台！！！！^05^
我就是冲着10Bit 422,400M才决定买的，但恰恰就是我最看重的落空了。
让我再哭一会吧，^05^
上帝之猪 发表于 2017-3-3 16:26
我的心哇凉哇凉的！！！我预定了两台！！！！
我就是冲着10Bit 422,400M才决定买的，但恰恰就是我最看 ...
GH5如果跟大法家A6500竞争的话还是有竞争力的，但貌似现在想跟A7S2竞争，这就比较吃力了。 本帖最后由 burningstar 于 2017-3-3 20:52 编辑
我来给大家做个总结的翻译
优点：
M43的传感器接上metabones能带来超好的浅景深（GH5：跟我啥关系。。。）
内置五轴防抖让图像稳定
先进的视频拍摄功能，如峰值，直方图或宽屏视角框
非常好的8bit画质！即便是4K60帧画面细节赞（比A7SII在高对比细节上更好）
FHD能到180fps（但是质量达不到1080p，更像是720P）
果冻效应控制得好
双SD卡插槽
无记录时间限制
“实惠”的价格
缺点：
V-LOG现在还有严重缺陷，同样问题存在于GH4上，存在偏色和让色彩过渡劣化的问题，制约10bit的发挥
10位 4:2:2模式看起来像 8位4:2:0模式
动态范围有限（达到11档，相当于魔灯破解后的佳能）
高感性能一般（ISO3200以下可用，ISO6400早点多，还会有黄色和品红偏色，慎用）
180fps模式画质比实际的1080p差得多（A7SII偷笑ing）
一些佳能镜头没法与metabones协同工作（本文不确定转接了是否还能机身防抖）
V-LOG似乎造成色彩断层，出现其他紫色和绿色色块？
而且GH5的10bit几乎和8bit一样的画质，估计让一众8bit相机都松口气了~
松下不要这么坑爹吧，好歹还是付费的升级啊！
话说这会不会让索尼放弃下放10bit？（Oh no...）^47^
我只希望sony在A6500现有功能下加上无限制拍摄时间和双卡槽 上帝之猪 发表于 2017-3-3 16:26
我的心哇凉哇凉的！！！我预定了两台！！！！
我就是冲着10Bit 422,400M才决定买的，但恰恰就是我最看 ...
我也定了两台，我看中的是4K 60P，目前有机器的人肯定没这功能，他们想实现这功能，就是要先等有这个功能的佳能或索尼，然后还是要再花钱买，当然佳能的1DX2已经有4K60P了 如果GH5是4K30P的话，其实就是GH4，没啥特别的 看来降价的速度会比想象的要快~！ 看来实用的就是4k60p，不过就这点就足够打动人了，再加上无时间限制拍摄，足可以媲美三万元摄像机了。
不看好微单，也只有422而已，还一万多。不知道大家有没有关注带电子云台稳定器的一体化相机
蕃茄涨价了 发表于 2017-3-4 01:20
看来降价的速度会比想象的要快~！
现在索尼的A7R2只要14000多了。 估计索尼弄个a6700能拍 4K@60PGH5就没啥人气了锐度？A7S2也艹不过A6500
不过A6500的1080P就是一坨翔 跟A7M2一个水准
10BIT和8bit一样？是不是目前固件还没有完全打开10BIT的性能，不是前段时间说要6月份后才给出10bit的固件吗？(可能还要收费) 吉他疯人 发表于 2017-3-4 17:09 static/image/common/back.gif
估计索尼弄个a6700能拍 4K@60PGH5就没啥人气了锐度？A7S2也艹不过A6500
不过A6500的1080P就是一坨翔 跟A ...
你这么说，佳能单反的全高清岂不翔都不如，不还是大把人用得嗨？http://www.filmaker.cn//mobcent//app/data/phiz/default/20.png
新固件主要是给了400m高码率，没啥大更新。
至于10bit性能嘛，也没这说法，是真实10bit的色阶不会过渡比8bit差，而且150m码率来说，也不低。
问题是出在vlog上，估计得出个vlog2来救吧
BTW，按坛内某大侠说的，10bit对于12档以上宽容度的机器更有用，而12档以下，8bit基本够用
看TIM的评测，GH5拍出来的10bit422实际上还是8bit420，不知道是出BUG了还是怎么了 随着各路大神的评测，GH5已经漏出“庐山真面目”le ~~^17^哈哈哈~~ 松下裤带子也不会那么厚道，弟兄们，还是上电影机吧，我不会在单反里面转悠了~~ 咬牙，剁手bmd mini 4.6k pro or terra 6k ! 吧~~哈哈^17^ 这些英文啥意思，我也看不太懂，好像是表示不服。谁给翻译翻译。
本帖最后由 上帝之猪 于 2017-3-7 15:42 编辑
C5D上本来就有人在撕逼，没有定论。
这个人的意思是说测试的时候关闭了机内降噪，所以暗部有噪点，实际上动态范围还是可以达到12档。
Vlog拍摄的颜色不好是因为重新编辑了LUT的基本参数。
部分细节丢失是因为本身锐度太高而把锐度调整到了最小——这个应该有点过分，GH5是没有低通滤波器的，锐度应该没有问题。
10bit相对8bit没有优势这个观点也没有任何实例支撑，例如可以通过对平滑过渡的蓝天进行暴力调整得到相应的结论。
他们抱怨180p升格的画质不如正常的1080P，但他们从来不抱怨佳能单反的1080p的画质从任何一个方面都不如GH5的180p。
大概就是这个意思吧，水平有限，可能不太准确。我觉得需要说明的测试的这个GH5仍然只是工程样机，测试得出的结论至少不够严谨。相对的Tim的评价比较客观。
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